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#21
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I believe Californians and Washingtonians are taught to get over as far to the right as possible when making a right turn-- to get into the bike lane before making the turn.
On the one hand, it would cut down on right hooks, but only if the people driving merge into the bike lane after yielding to bikes in the bike lane. On the other hand... the law says the bike lane is for bikes only, and that cars are not allowed to drive, stop or park in the bike lane. Anyway-- my point being, a lot of people who move here from out of state don't have to take any sort of test to get an Oregon driver's license, they just have to apply for one. So they don't know a lot of our bike lane and bike specific laws. Yes, I know that ignorance is never a good defense. Maybe it's time the state instituted mandatory written testing when you move here to get an Oregon DL, and when you renew, and change the renewal period to 2-5 years instead of 8+. |
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#22
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I'm not sure about the bike lane being used as an 'all vehicles' right turn transition lane, idea. California does it, so I suppose it works in some form. Cyclists there probably are often cut off further back from the intersection as motorists transition into the bike lane to prepare for a right turn.
Is this happening as I visualize, and if so, is this the worse that's happening with this measure for reducing right hooks? If true, maybe that approach is worth considering as a means to enabling safe, efficient flow of traffic on the road. It's no doubt true that Californians and other out of state visitors that find the need to drive in Oregon, aren't actively aware of all differences that may exist between their state...or countries...road use regulations, and Oregon's. Would though, the people of Oregon, support an actual measure requiring all such road users to test before being allowed access to roads within Oregon (at least roads the state has authority over.)? Think of what that would involve. If Oregon should ever get to the point (maybe it already exists over on Williams Ave.) where the number of cyclists on the road is so great that a motor vehicle operator in a main lane would never have a gap in the flow of cyclists in the bike lane so as to maneuver their motor vehicle across the bike lane and into a right turn, maybe the California measure would be one necessary to take. |
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#23
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The move that 668 ESM did on Setha was completely negligent; the driver would never try that on a motorcycle cop, for example. It was especially nasty with that drain grate right there. He (?) saw Setha and knew he was pushing his luck, that's why he cut in so fast. Do his brake lights look confused to anyone else, like amber instead of red? And his rear tire clipped the curb...very poor driver. That bike lane line desperately needs restriping, too.
I'm not sure about Washington law on that situation but then, there were no bike lanes at all when I took my driver's test. If nothing else that goes to show that continuing education and retesting for drivers is needed just to deal with changing laws and traffic. I do know that around Vancouver, where a bike lane crosses a dedicated right turn lane, they stripe the bike lane with dashed lines for the cross-over to the left of the right turn lane. Most cars obey it well enough, but I am very careful to check before I merge over. I have had to hit the brakes and swerve right on occassion. ![]() It's not WA law but the WA driver's guide is linked from here (1.3Mb .pdf). Page 78 "Space for Bicyclists" says: Bicycle lanes are marked with solid white lines. YouThat makes it sound legal for cars to do that sort of move in WA. That section also mentions 39,000 bikers injured or killed annually. Wsbob, I haven't heard any proposals to require visiting out-of-state drivers to be tested, just drivers moving into a new state. I thought that was already required, at least for WA, it seems like a good common-sense rule, but apparently not according to the DOL website: "...you won’t need to take a knowledge test or a driving test unless you have a medical or physical condition that indicates testing is required." Yes, testing visitors would be hugely complicated and somehow I imagine it would fall afoul of some federal laws. In Dutch cities where drivers are very aware of bikes, they'll just wait patiently for a break in ped/bike traffic, even if it's a crowded crossing and they have to wait several minutes. They don't get pushy or flustered, just wait until it's their turn. Even on Williams such a break would come fairly quickly, faster than tourist parts of Amsterdam. It will take some getting-used-to by our drivers, I guess. Last edited by Alan; 04-25-2011 at 08:06 PM. Reason: fix formatting |
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#24
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I think if you read the "Do not drive in a bicycle lane except when making a turn, ..." literally means moving after you have made a proper stop or whatever you are required to do. It certainly does not permit a "merge" into the bike lane. It simply says you can "cross" the bike lane in executing a "legal" turn from "your" lane. The verbage could be better or even more explicit, but good luck on changing that.
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#25
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Well, that's just the driver's guide, not the WA law itself, so it's only meant to be descriptive. I hope you're right about what it means! It gets messy, though, with decisions like that judge in Portland a year or so back that ruled against a right-hooked cyclist because the bike lane stripe stopped at the intersection, hence the bike lane itself stopped. Now, I don't agree with that judge but if you take his interpretation literally, the car that did the right-hook didn't actually drive in the bike lane since the bike lane (by his interpretation) had stopped.
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#26
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I think that I avoided a potential right hook at Barbur and Hamilton, despite 334 DDX's late turn signal. Here's a link to the helmet cam video. and here's are stills from the video:
![]() vw_bug_bus_and_do_not_pass2 by pdxcommuter, on Flickr Another still, which shows 334 DDX's license plate and that he finally turned on his turn signal: ![]() vw_bug_bus_and_do_not_pass3_plate_only by pdxcommuter, on Flickr and here's the description from the video: Quote:
Last edited by setha; 04-26-2011 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Added another photo. |
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#27
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That one is an almost every day occurance.
I expected that bug to do just that just by the leadin. I would have probably already taken the lane just to avoid playing tag with the bus. |
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#28
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You are probably a faster rider than me. Most of the time I try to pass the bus the bus usually ends up passing me. Plus, the bus, like other traffic on Barbur, can go 35 or 45 mph, unlike, say, downtown or the SE side.
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#29
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Looks like Barbur, uphill. Been a long time since I rode it. Never a pleasant experience on a bike. I would have done just as seth did. On the other hand, if I was feeling particularly alert and energetic, I might have bothered to transition around the bus by the lanes to the left as simple nature commented about. But as seth, said, on Barbur, doing that is probably just going to result in being passed by the bus shortly thereafter.
Barbur isn't pleasant traveling in a car either. I suppose that's a small amount of justice. There's a tougher climb involved, but I'd probably be inclined to take Corbett and some side streets at the top to come out just east of the Burlingame Fred Meyer. Much nicer, quieter ride. Almost no hyper-tensioned road users to deal with. |
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#30
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I haven't posted to this thread in a while because my computer died. Then some other things came up. But, I'm back now. And I have a backlog of video to go through.
Yesterday, I think that I avoided a left hook. Here's the link to the helmet cam video. And, here are some stills from the video: ![]() left_hook_barbur_before_turn_in_wrong_lane04 by pdxcommuter, on Flickr ![]() left_hook_barbur_before_turn_in_wrong_lane_xwn_556 _06 by pdxcommuter, on Flickr Finally, here's the description from youtube: Quote:
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| Tags |
| bicycle lane, left hook, portland oregon usa, right hook, smidsy/smidgaf |
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